patmcneil
Newbie
Posts: 6
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« on: July 04, 2006, 04:42:19 AM » |
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Ive bee nreading about thickeners and was wondering if anyone could help me with this. If I were to mix up some water, softener and alginate in a gallon jug, will it go bad after a certain amount of time? If it does, how long does it take and is there any way to tell if it's bad?
Thanks,
Pat
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steve
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2006, 05:16:07 AM » |
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When I mix alginate, urea and water, it does go bad after a length of time. That time depends upong temperature. In warm weather it is generally good for 7-10 days. It lasts longer in cooler temperatures. I suppose you could refrigerator and it would last quite awhile. That being said. I suspect the urea is more the culprit, so if you don't use urea, you might have a different experience. There are many here that do not use urea, and they might be able to relate their experiences.
The ureas component develops a ammonia smell when it goes bad, whereas the thickener seems to get thin again after awhile.
Steve
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ecilA
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2006, 08:41:34 AM » |
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from what I understand, premixed alginate will eventually mold. But then super clear can go bad in the jar as well (alginate mold was the experience of a fellow dyer, superclear mold I've personally seen more than once.)
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tiedyejudy
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2006, 02:29:33 AM » |
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Interesting about mold in superclear. It must have something to do with humidity. I have used superclear for over a year now, and have not had it go bad on me. I don't refrigerate it, just keep it tightly closed in a bucket in my craft room.
As for the alginate, when I was using it, I don't recall putting the urea in it. I seem to recall mixing my water and urea, then adding alginate before adding to the dye. That way, you wouldn't have the urea sitting in the alginate for a long time unless you left the unused dye to sit.
Judy
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pburch
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2006, 07:02:30 AM » |
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Alginate is supposed to last longer without spoiling if you first use alcohol or oil as an aid in mixing. There's also the issue of the frustrating gels that alginate can form. It's almost impossible to get it out of the bottles. You can't even melt alginate gels. Apparently it's calcium in the water that encourages alginate to gel, so metaphos can help prevent it. More info: Sodium alginate, Superclear, and other dye thickenersPaula |
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steve
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2006, 11:23:58 AM » |
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There's also the issue of the frustrating gels that alginate can form. It's almost impossible to get it out of the bottles. You can't even melt alginate gels. Apparently it's calcium in the water that encourages alginate to gel, so metaphos can help prevent it.
Paula
Interesting. I have noticed that certain colors--in particular Yellow MX-8G can produce a very thick gel; whereas, other colors don't tend to do so. It's almost like a jelly. If it is cold it seems almost like jello (well not quite that bad). Has anyonce else noticed this tendency? Steve |
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ecilA
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2006, 09:40:30 PM » |
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Steve, I had a run with some funky batches of fushia (from dharma) years ago, and it was a similar problem that you describe with the yellow. It would quickly clump, it was slimy, stringy, definetly clog bottles or syringes and it seemed to happen in less than 24 hours. No problem with it in a long time, but it was a pita when it happened.
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unformedmatter
Guest
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2006, 11:15:44 PM » |
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yellow (in my experience) also has a heavy amount of precipitate, and needs to be shaken right before use. i'm sure they are related.
i had a bunch of dyes freeze in the fridge. i decided to try them out anyway. the only one that changed from the usual dye color was my yellow (tangerine from prochem in this case).
some of that precip seems to have gotten damaged by the freezing, and did not dye; whereas my other colors (marine and boysenberry) were completely dissolved and had no problem. i did not notice on the straight yellow piece, but on a couple of the mixed pieces it was obvious.
i was doing a color wheel, and have done the same wheel a couple of times for fat quarters, so i had a lot to compare it to.
i have noticed the yellow issue in several colors/brands of dye.
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Kathy
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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2006, 07:29:13 AM » |
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I have had similar experiences with yellow(golden to be precise) and in the distant past with raspberry. Letting the bottles sit in a warm spot or in a bowl of warm h20 for a bit and then shaking it real well helped to thn things out and "de-gel" it. As a caveat, the gelling occured when the dyes where placed in a the fridge for storage.
Kath
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