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Author Topic: intense colors, what makes them so bright?  (Read 1426 times)
fiberartist219
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« on: September 17, 2006, 11:18:14 AM »

I was at a concert this weekend, and I enjoyed seeing some tie dye running around in the sun! I saw some really bright colors, and I was wondering... what, besides more dye, makes them so bright?

I am relatively certain I'm using enough dye and soda ash, but when it is all rinsed and dried, everything looks duller and more pastel than I intended. How do I make the lovely colors that I see other people wearing?

Also, the whole mercerization thing... I know that fabrics that are mercerized come out brighter than those that aren't. Is there a place to find PFD clothing that is mercerized? Is there a way to mercerize fabrics yourself?

I just want bright colors, and I'm not sure how to do that with direct application dyeing.
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tiedyejudy
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« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2006, 02:42:25 AM »

A couple of things I have found to help brighten the colors:
1) I tie my garments, then soak in soda ash, then allow them to dry for awhile before dyeing.  The garment is anywhere from slightly damp to almost dry when I apply the dye.  This prevents the moisture from the soda soak from diluting the dye.
2) I use thickener in my dyes.  This allows the dyes to spread more slowly, which keeps the colors purer.
3) I always let the garment soak for around 24 hours before washing out.
4) Contrary to what most people do, I do not pre-rinse before washing in synthrapol.  I used to, and got very nice pastel colors.  After watching Michael Fowler's DVD, I tried putting the unrinsed garment directly into the wash, and found my colors brightened considerably.
5) I haven't tried them yet, but I do know that Michael and some others have raved about pigment 'dyes' , some of which come in flourescent colors.
 
Judy
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pburch
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« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2006, 03:20:03 AM »

I am relatively certain I'm using enough dye and soda ash, but when it is all rinsed and dried, everything looks duller and more pastel than I intended. How do I make the lovely colors that I see other people wearing?

Getting very bright, intense colors is extremely easy unless you are doing something wrong. We just have to find out what step is going wrong for you. Here are the questions that usually pinpoint just what the problem is:

  • How much dye powder are you using? Are you using at least two teaspoons of dye for every cup of water? I prefer four teaspoons of dye per cup of water. That's per cup of dye mixture in the squirt bottles that you actually apply directly to the fabric, not as a concentrate which might then be diluted further.

  • How old is your dye? Has it ever been stored in a hot place, such as a hot car? What brand is it? Did you buy it locally, or by mail-order? Was it a hot day in summer when your dyes were delivered?

  • How warm is your dye reaction temperature, after you apply the dye and before you wash it out? Is it at least 70°F (21°C), preferably higher? This is the most common problem.

  • How long do you let the dye react with the fabric? Do you give it a full day to react, before you wash it out? You can give it less time only if you give it a very warm place to react (batch cure). Does it dry out before your 24 hours are up? It has to stay at least a tiny bit damp during the batch curing.

  • What kind of soda ash are you using? Is it washing soda? You have to use three times as much washing soda as you do of pure sodium carbonate, because of all the water molecules in it. Do not use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Is it possible that you've ever confused the urea with the soda ash? People do that sometimes, and the colors come out pastel, due to inadvertantly omitting the soda ash.

  • When do you add the soda ash? Dye mixed with soda ash goes bad after an hour. Do you presoak your garments in soda ash, squeeze it out, and then apply dye to the wet fabric? Hopw much soda ash do you use? Different recipes call for anywhere from 9 tablespoons (135 ml) to one cup (250 ml) per gallon (4 liters) of water. What matters is the final pH, which should be between 10.5 and 11, or at least near there. Do you have any pH paper handy to test the pH of your soda soak?

  • What is the fiber content of your shirts? Is it always 100% cotton, or is it ever 50% polyester? Is it stain-resistant? Shirts that resist stains also resist dye. Is it treated to be permanent press? Same problem. Do you prescour the shirts by washing them in hot water with Synthrapol and extra soda ash?

This is certainly not a post-dyeing washing issue. Properly fixed Procion MX dye cannot be washed out, no matter how you wash it, unless you use bleach or strong acids. I always wash my tie-dyed garments once in cold water before washing them twice in very hot water, and my tie-dyes always come out extremely bright. The only way washing can interfere with dye intensity is if you do it too soon, before all of the dye has had time to react.

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Also, the whole mercerization thing... I know that fabrics that are mercerized come out brighter than those that aren't. Is there a place to find PFD clothing that is mercerized? Is there a way to mercerize fabrics yourself?

I don't think you really want to try that. I don't. Mercerization is the treatment of cotton fabric or thread with lye under tension. Without the tension, the lye treatment makes the cotton shrink a lot; with the tension, it also develops a nice luster. Stretching the fabric while treating with lye requires some set-up. The lye itself is very dangerous and should not be used unless you have had laboratory training in how to use dangerous chemicals. A couple of members of the DyersLIST mailing list have experimented with mercerization, so what they wrote about their experiences is in the archive of that mailing list; that's what convinced me not to bother. If you can't find mercerized garments or fabric, keep in mind that rayon also tends to dye brightly, much the same as mercerized cotton.

Paula
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fiberartist219
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« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2006, 11:26:35 AM »

Maybe it is the dye after all. I soak the shirts in soda ash, and then add more soda ash just before squirting it on. I put in half a teaspoon for four ounces of water, but it sounds like maybe I needed more than that!

My dyes are two years old. They were ordered from ProChem, and they have never been in severe weather. I recieved my delivery sometime in the fall of 2004. How long is the shelf life on powdered dyes?

I also wonder if it isn't the temperature in my apartment that did it. I think it was around 68 degrees when I dyed my last batch.

I left it overnight to cure 10-12 hours. It was still wet in the morning when I rinsed it. I didn't realize that it required 24 hours, because when I vat dye, it only takes about 3 hours, and I figured that soda ash and the dye reacted pretty quickly.

The shirt I did that day was 100% cotton, and the skirt I did was rayon. They were both from dharma. I think the skirt though was an issue because I used black dye and I forgot that to get black, you have to use more dye than normal. The shirt I did came out ok, but not super bright.

Thanks for all the help! I will continue dyeing and live and learn.
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pburch
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2006, 04:36:07 AM »

You're using half a teaspoon per half-cup of dye - yes, that's halfway between the amounts that ProChem recommends for pale and for medium colors. I think you should use at least twice that. If your goal is very bright, intense colors, try two teaspoons per half-cup of water, and see how you like the results.

ProChem dyes are supposed to be good for two years after purchase, if I recall correctly.

When my house is around 68°F, I like to find a little extra warmth for the dye reactions. There are lots of ways to provide this.

Paula
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steve
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2006, 10:24:20 AM »

To get my bright colors:

  • 1 tbsp/cup
  • Thickened dye
  • Bone Dry Fabric
  • 12-20 oz dye/shirt
  • Color Contrasts

Steve
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