Dylon Cold (Dying Time???)

[fuzz]

Hey, i'm trying to make my first tie dye shirts over the weekend, one thing i'm not sure of is how long i leave the dye in the fabic, for the Mx dyes all the tutorials say for 24 hours, i was wondering if someone could tell me how long i should leave my dye in for, the packet says 10 mins but i'm sure that can't be right for tie dying.

[pburch]

Hey, i'm trying to make my first tie dye shirts over the weekend, one thing i'm not sure of is how long i leave the dye in the fabic, for the Mx dyes all the tutorials say for 24 hours, i was wondering if someone could tell me how long i should leave my dye in for, the packet says 10 mins but i'm sure that can't be right for tie dying.

No, that's not right. Even on the packet, the instructions should indicate at least one hour. The Dylon Cold Water Dye online instructions for immersion dyeing say to agitate the garment with the dye for ten minutes, and then continue to dye while stirring intermittently for a total of one to three hours, depending on color.

Immersion dyeing requires less time than direct dye application. We use a lot of salt for immersion dyeing, to encourage the dye to associate with the fiber, but for tie-dyeing we do not need to use salt, since there is a higher concentration of the dye right next to the fiber. Normally, immersion dyeing with fiber reactive dyes is done for about an hour, while tie-dyeing is best left overnight for the dyes to react, unless you heat-set with steam or in the microwave.

Dylon Cold Water Dye contains fiber reactive dye and no fixer; Dylon Permanent Dye contains the fixer already mixed in. Dylon Cold Water Dye is therefore more appropriate for use in tie-dyeing. Dylon Dyes, except for black, are mostly Drimarene K dyes, which require a warmer reaction temperature than Procion MX dyes, so be sure to batch-cure your tie-dyed items in a warm place overnight, preferably 40°C or above (104°F or above). The Drimarene Turquoise has even higher temperature requirements than other Drimarene K dyes, so be sure to use plenty of warmth if you're using that color in your mixes. The dyes will work at 27°C (80°F ) or above, though, even if you don't reach the optimum temperatures. (See About Fiber Reactive Dyes on my site.)

If you can't find a warm enough place for your dyed items to react, you could make a warm place for your dye reactions with an electric blanket, or you could seal each in plastic bags and place in the oven with just the warmth of the pilot light, if it's gas (or turn an electric on to "warm" for ten minutes, turn it off again, and only then put the dyed items in), or microwave each one for thirty seconds at a time, watching very closely to make sure that the plastic bags do not inflate enough to burst, and stopping the microwave immediately if that seems at all likely.

Be sure to use enough dye powder! For tie-dyeing, use at least two teaspoons of dye per cup of water in the squirt bottle. Use at least one package of Dylon dye for every 250 grams of fabric; to tie-dye three t-shirts, use three packages. Don't forget to presoak your shirts in dye fixer: one cup (250 ml) of soda ash (sodium carbonate) is good for one gallon of presoak. If you use washing soda, use three times as much, or 750 ml per gallon of water in the presoak.

Paula

[fuzz]

Wow thanks for that, ueah i've got all the Cold Dye Fix sashee things, so when i'm tie dying i don't need to add the 125g of salt to each of my colors??

[pburch]

Wow thanks for that, ueah i've got all the Cold Dye Fix sashee things, so when i'm tie dying i don't need to add the 125g of salt to each of my colors??

That's right, you don't have to mix salt in your dyes for tie-dyeing. We usually make our dyes much more concentrated for tie-dyeing than for immersion dyeing; adding salt reduces dye solubility, so it might be a problem if you are using very strong dye solutions. It will not be a problem otherwise, though, so if your dye manages to dissolve, you're fine with or without salt. You do not need to use salt to help drive the dye out of the water and onto the fiber, when you're tie-dyeing, because there's so much less water, relative to the amount of dye, and the dye is much closer to the fiber.

I often like to use salt in low water immersion dyeing, to increase the sharpness of the patterns, but then I do not add it with the dyes; I add it with the soda, ash, instead, so that I don't have to worry about it interfering with the dye's ability to dissolve.

I just learned that Dylon Cold Water dyes do not contain the same types of dye as other Dylon dyes! They have revealed that Dylon Cold Water Dye contains dichlorotriazine dye, the same type of dye that's in Procion MX. (I do not know whether this has always been the case. Perhaps it has. They used to just say it contained fiber reactive dyes "like" Procion MX dyes, and Cibacron F and Drimarene K dyes are very much "like" Procion MX dyes.) So, you don't have to worry quite so much about dyeing temperature as you do with Dylon Permanent and Dylon Washing Machine dyes. All of these dyes will work at a warm room temperature, though, and all will benefit from extra warmth if the room temperature is cold. They are all good fiber reactive dyes. They all cost a lot more per shirt than ordering dye from a company like PRO Chemical & Dye, that's the only real drawback.

Dylon Cold Dye Fix almost certainly contains sodium carbonate, also known as soda ash; you can always substitute pure sodium carbonate from the pool supply store, if you like. All you need to fix Procion MX and similar dyes on cotton is a high pH.

Paula

[fuzz]

I followed all the steps you said and all the instructions but my shirts ended up looking very faded, all the colors are alot lighter than they should be., I dont know what i did wrong, i washed the shirts in boiling water first, i didn't add the salt, and i kept them at about 24*C.


The color insencity i wanted it to be



How it turned out



The only thing i can think of is i made the dye to packet strength, i'm not sure if i'm sposed to make it more concerntrated.

[pburch]

Your shirt is pretty, even if it is pastel! You did a good job of tying it and applying color. This is the sort of learning experience that is inevitable when using new art materials for the first time. You have to expect some trial and error. If you do not want a pastel shirt, you can re-tie the shirt again and tie it again, in more intense colors this time, dissolved in cool water to start with. Layering dye on fabric in more than one dyeing step can result in a richer and more interesting final effect. If that's not what you want, washing with chlorine bleach will lighten and change the dye colors before your next try.

Unfortunately, you absolutely have to mix your dyes a lot stronger than packet strength! As I said in my post above, "We usually make our dyes much more concentrated for tie-dyeing than for immersion dyeing." I'm sorry we didn't discuss that issue in more detail before. [edited to add: I did go into this in detail in one of my posts above!  "Be sure to use enough dye powder! For tie-dyeing, use at least two teaspoons of dye per cup of water in the squirt bottle. Use at least one package of Dylon dye for every 250 grams of fabric; to tie-dye three t-shirts, use three packages."] You cannot follow the immersion dyeing recipe on the packet for tie-dyeing and still get bright colors. You have to follow a tie-dye recipe, such as the one here. Before you wash the dye out, your garments should be much darker than you want, because inevitably some of the dye will fail to react.

If you are using Dylon Cold Water dye, for immersion dyeing you use one packet for eight ounces of fabric weight - i.e., one packet per t-shirt - disolved in one pint (0.5 liter) of water. Each tin contains only 5 grams of dye - that's not much! For direct dye application, such as tie-dye, you should mix that much dye in only one-half to one cup (120-250 ml) of water, unless you want pastel shades.

Another potential problem is the packet instructions to "dissolve dye in 500ml/1 pint hottest tap water. Stir well and add to bowl." You can probably get away with that for Drimarene K dyes, which is what I earlier thought Dylon Cold Water dyes were, but now that we know that most of the dyes in Dylon Cold Water dye are Procion MX type dyes, we know that dissolving the dye in hot water is a HUGE mistake. The heat can kill the dye's reactivity before it ever touches the fabric! Always dissolve Procion MX type dyes in water that is body temperature (98°F/37°C) or below. Room temperature water is good for dissolving dye.

A friend of mine had almost identical results when she forgot to add the soda ash, which is what's in Dylon Cold Fix. You need 80 to 140 grams of soda ash (sodium carbonate) per gallon of pre-soak. Each packet of Dylon Cold Fix contains only 15 grams of sodium carbonate, so it will make up to 700 milliliters of soda ash presoak. We don't need to use salt in tie-dyeing, but soda ash is essential. Any one of those three mistakes - using too little dye, dissolving dye in hot water, or omitting the soda ash presoak - will have the same result, which is paler colors. So will using a room that's too cold for the dye reaction - we need a minimum of 70°F (21°C) overnight - or using shirts that are 50% polyester, or using stain-resistant shirts.

Paula

[fuzz]

Ok, i tried it again, but this time i used half the amount of water that the packet suggested (i used 250mls for every tub of dye), the shirts still seemed to fade alot.


Just after i did it..(how intense i would like the colors to be)





After it dried



So yeah, it worked alot better than my last attempt, but if i have to use 1 tub per shirt its going to end up costing me about $30 per shirt! Of course i understand that after it washes and drys the color is not going to be as good as while its dying but my shirts seem to fade alot. Would you suggest that i buy some of the Mx Dyes online so i don't have to spend so much money on shirts that are very faded.

Or if i'm going to use the mx dyes what should be the amount of water i put in if i want it to look like my first picture??

[pburch]

So yeah, it worked alot better than my last attempt, but if i have to use 1 tub per shirt its going to end up costing me about $30 per shirt! Of course i understand that after it washes and drys the color is not going to be as good as while its dying but my shirts seem to fade alot. Would you suggest that i buy some of the MX Dyes online so i don't have to spend so much money on shirts that are very faded. to look like my first picture??

The whole problem with buying tiny tins of Dylon Cold dye is that you need one 5-gram package for every shirt. Your "before washing" shirts have to be much darker if you want your "after-washing" shirts to be bright. There's no getting around that, unless you want pastels. Good prices on Procion MX dye are never going to be found in tiny packages. You'll want to buy jars that contain 2 ounces to 8 ounces of dye powder per jar.

I have a list of many different places to buy dyes supplies by mail-order on my page entitled Sources for Dyeing Supplies Around the World. Where are you located? A two-ounce jar of Procion MX dye that costs $5 at PRO Chemical contains as much dye as eleven packets of Dylon Cold Water dye.

Paula

[fuzz]

Yeah, i'm located in Sydney Australia, so theres a shop not to far from me thats in your listings, i'll go there sometime to get some dye, thanks alot for all your help. I'll let you know on how they turn out.

[pburch]

The dyes at Batik Oetoro are not only cheaper than Dylon dyes, they are also much better for the tie-dyer. Most Dylon Cold Water dye colors are each several dyes, pre-mixed together, with the aim of making more fashionable, subtle shades. Batik Oetoro sells the unmixed single-hue pure dyes that are brighter and truer in color and also more suitable for use as mixing primaries. If you get their Procion MX dyes, be sure to buy Yellow MX-8G, Turquoise MX-G, and either Red MX-5B or Red MX-8B, in addition to any other colors that strike your fancy. Don't forget to get soda ash; urea and alginate are optional. (Tell them where you found out about them. )

Paula

[tiedyejudy]

I often like to use salt in low water immersion dyeing, to increase the sharpness of the patterns, but then I do not add it with the dyes; I add it with the soda, ash, instead, so that I don't have to worry about it interfering with the dye's ability to dissolve.

What proportion of salt do you use in the soda ash, Paula?  That is something I overlooked in your instructions on lwi!

Judy

[pburch]

What proportion of salt do you use in the soda ash, Paula?  That is something I overlooked in your instructions on lwi!

I usually use one teaspoon (5 ml) of salt, along with one teaspoon of soda ash, per cup (250 ml) of final dyebath volume, in LWI, when I use salt at all. I mix the salt in the the soda ash, which I pour on at the end, after the dye has rested on the fabric for a little while.

You don't have to use salt in LWI, but I think it may sometimes be a good idea, if you like more definition in the patterns made. Some dyes tend to spread out more smoothly than others; those are the ones I'm more apt to add salt to. I have not noticed any ill effects from using the salt. I never use salt in tie-dyeing, though.

Paula

[fuzz]

Ok, i bought a whole bunch of dyes today(cost me $80!!) so i've made a test shirt, using 150 mls of water and one and a half teaspoons of dye, i'll upload photos in the morning, but at the moment it's looking pretty good!

[fuzz]

Yay, i'm very happy with these new colors, and as you can see, i think i'm pretty good at spiral now, what other folds do you suggest i should try now?









I'm going to try the spider one today, so i'll show you have it works out.

[pburch]

Having the right dyes is great, isn't it? They're brighter and more predictable, and they go a lot farther.

Check out the folds in the Tie Dye Wiki. Looking through there may inspire you to choose another fold.

A key point in increasing complexity is to use different colors on the two sides of the shirt. Those who use thickened dye sometimes like to use complementary colors on the front and back of the same section of the tied-up shirt. The colors end up as alternating short stripes on the unfolded shirt. The strong contrast in adjacent colors makes the colors really pop, sometimes painfully so. Sometimes the clash is good, sometimes otherwise. Since I usually prefer to work with unthickened dye, I can't place complementary colors on the opposite sides of the same section, because they would mix in the middle to make ugly muddy colors. I like to place colors that will look good if they bled together, but still give the alternating-color stripe effect.

One of my current favorites is a circle, folded just like the heart, except for the drawn folding guide being a circle instead of a heart. On the shirt below (click on the image to see it bigger, or click here if the picture doesn't work), as you can see, in some sections I placed rose on the front, blue on the back, and then later dipped the blue side in a little bit of black.


Paula