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Author Topic: Book on mixing colors?  (Read 1819 times)
Marg
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« on: December 16, 2006, 02:55:51 AM »

Hi- I have been buying pre-mixed ProChem colors and generally I like them a lot. But now I want to know more about mixing my own colors and am wondering if there is a good book about it. I know about Jacquard's color mixing chart but I have all ProChem colors and I called ProChem and they don't have a mixing master sheet or anything like that. Do you all just play around with mixing or do you follow a guide? Thanks and Happy Holidays! Marg
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pburch
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2006, 05:52:26 AM »

The very best color mixing chart is one that you make yourself by taking Carol Soderlund's workshop in color mixing. I've never been able to take it, but there's no question but that it's the best; it saves a lot of time as compared to doing it by yourself for all of those color combinations. Lacking that, you need to do a bunch of experimentation on your own in order to really learn how to mix the colors you want. Unfortunately, your results will not be reproducible unless you measure out your dyes by weight, rather than volume.

Many but not all of the colors on the Jacquard Procion MX mixing chart are the same as those sold by ProChem. The problem is that Jacquard unaccountably used some pre-mixed colors in their mixing chart. If I wanted to buy pre-mixed colors, I would not want the chart! It does reduce the number of colors you need to buy, though.

There's a copy of Jacquard's mixing chart on my website at http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/FAQ/procionMXdyemixing.shtml which has the generic names for each of the colors they call for. The ones that are not proprietary mixes may be the same as those you have purchased from ProChem. To see what ProChem's names and catalog numbers are for each of their pure unmixed Procion MX dyes, see my chart at http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/FAQ/pureMXcolors.shtml.

Dreamline dye suppliers, in the Netherlands, also have charts for mixing different colors from six Procion MX mixing primaries. Here is a link to their charts: http://www.dreamline.nl/rct.html
and here is a link to my attempt at translating their charts into English: http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/FAQ/dreamline_mixing_guide.shtml

Another color mixing resource I strongly recommend, and the easiest of all of these suggestions to try, is Olli Niemitalo's wonderful Dye Mixer Applet, at http://iki.fi/o/dye/dyemixer/. It's not perfect because it cannot tell you how much of each dye to weigh out, but it's the fastest way to decide which colors would be good to try, and it is fun to use.

Paula
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pburch
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2006, 06:06:17 AM »

I meant to say that the best book is the one you make yourself in Carol Soderlund's workshop. (Not a mere chart.)

Another book to look at, much easier to obtain, is Elin Noble's Dyes and Paints - A Hands-On Guide to Coloring Fabric. It includes some charts showing the colors you can get by mixing some of the basic primaries, and explains how to make your own charts.

Paula
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Marg
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2006, 06:31:18 AM »

Thanks Paula- I hope you are well. I have never weighed my dyes, always measured them out and when I need a 1/4 of a Tablespoon, I just wing it - not very scientific I know. Do you weigh out your dyes, exactly how is that done? And the problem is that I never figured weight of goods or anything like that, I just go by mixing the volume I want, usually 1, 2, or 3 cups. Is it really very complicated? Marg
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pburch
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2006, 08:05:09 AM »

To be honest, I do not usually weigh out my dyes, because reproducibility is not usually what I'm after, and it is easier to avoid getting dye dust into the air if I'm not weighing. When my energy is very limited I'm happy enough to be surprised by the colors I get, but sometimes I need to keep better records, which requires weighing. When I need to weigh dyes out, I have a nice little balance scale that measures 1 to 100 grams that I usually use for dyes. When I can't find that one, I use a larger heavy beam balance that I got from a lab that was closing. Carol Soderlund says to get a scale that weighs 1 to around 400 grams with a readability of 0.1 grams. Here's one that looks good to me (I haven't tried it): http://www.rightonscales.com/web/120z.htm

Don't put your dye directly on the scale. You don't want to have to clean it. Use some sort of paper or something to put the dye onto, on the scale. You need to cut out pieces of waxed paper, or get some sort of disposable plastic container. Lids from yogurt containers would be good if you go through a lot of that, for example. Dye will stick to plain paper, if the weather is humid enough. Some scales will let you 'tare'; the weight, which is to say, rezero after you put your weighing paper on the scale. That saves some thinking and is a great idea. Otherwise you have to subtract the weight of the paper from the final weight, which is the weight of the dye plus paper.

It's impossible to work with the customary measurements of ounces and pounds, fluid ounces and pints. It's much easier to work if you convert everything to metric, even if you rarely use metric. A calculator is handy to have for this. Most measuring cups these days have metric volume marked on one side and customary US measurements on the other. One cup is about 250 ml, two cups is 500 ml. Kitchen measuring cups are not as reliable as graduated cylinders used to measure volume in a lab–sometimes the lines on the side are a little off–but if you always use the same one your results should be pretty close.

Weight of goods is very easy to calculate. If your fabric weighs half a pound, that's half of 454 grams, or about 225 grams. If you want 6% OWG (I have never figured out why they include the intial for "on" in that acronym), you want 6/100 of this, or 6 times 225 divided by 100, which works out to about thirteen and a half grams. Or, you can measure out whatever amount you want to use with a spoon, plop it on the scale, and just write down how much it weighs and how much your fabric weighed, and make a note also of how many cups of water you used, as well as a note of the room temperature. Then you can always figure it all out later if you want to repeat your results exactly.

Linda Knutsen's book Synthetic Dyes for Natural Fibers has a chapter on how to use the metric system to work with dye. It's well worth buying a used copy if you can get one for under $25, which is often possible.

The Jaquard Procion MX color mixing table is based on volume measurements, using teaspoons, but that means that it will not always work as expected. One batch of dye will be fluffier than another, so you get less dye in a given spoonful–sometimes only half as much! All other mixing guides are based on weight because that is more meaningful. A standard strength dye like we use will always be the same strength per weight, but can vary a lot by volume, from one manufacturing batch to another.

Paula
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fiberartist219
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2006, 08:02:01 AM »

Weighing is a pain in the butt, however it is very beneficial to predicting what your colors will look like. I am always suprised when I do not weigh by dye and measure out the water how different the mixed colors come out as opposed to how I expected them to look. I got my scale from an online vendor, but I haven't been good at taking care of it. I'm not sure how accurate it is anymore because I have no idea how to calibrate it. I also got some inexpensive graduated cylinders from (if I remember correctly) US Plastics (also online). They are not as accurate or nice to work with as the glass, but for me it is more practical. I got all this stuff right after college, because I was an art major, and that's all I wanted to do.

Lately, I haven't been doing any measureing other than teaspoons, because I've been playing around a lot and haven't been investing as much time and energy into my art. Amazing what a full time job does to drain your energy! Anyway, you can also just scoop out some colors and see what happens, but write down what amounts you use, and keep it with the swatches so you'll know what they look like. Keep in mind that reds are a lot stronger than the other colors (in general anyway, fushia is very powerful). Yellows are weaker, especially when mixed. There are a lot of types of reds and blues, and each one acts differently. Remember, the more accurate your records are, the more control you will have over your colors!

I agree that Elin Noble's book has an easy to use chart in it with a variety of colors. You should check it out at your local library and see if it helps.

I also use the dye applet, but it is difficult to understand sometimes, because it takes extra research to know which dyes are pure and what their names are in different vendors. (Paula's site is very helpful with that though.) It is also hard to understand because some of the options to choose are confusing, such as lighting, etc. I did get a nice chocolate brown though, and it was helpful in getting that. I would have had to waste a lot of dye and fabric to figure out how to mix it without the applet!

I have also heard wonderful things about Carol Suderland's class. I would love to take it, however it is far away from where I live, and I don't think I'm serious enough to travel for it.
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Marg
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2006, 02:00:23 PM »

Just as a side note, I emailed ProChem and asked for a list of their Pure colors and here it is:

PRO Yellow 104 - Procion Yellow MX-3RA

PRO Yellow 108 - Procion Yellow MX-8G

PRO Yellow 112 - Procion Yellow MX-GR

PRO Yellow 114 - Procion Yellow MX-4G

PRO Orange 202 - Procion Orange MX-2R

PRO Scarlet 300 - Procion Scarlet MX-BRA

PRO Red 305 - Procion Red MX-5B

PRO Red 308 - Procion Red MX-8B

PRO Red 312 - Procion Red MX-GBA

PRO Blue 400 - Procion Blue MX-R

PRO Blue 402c - Procion Blue MX-2G 125

PRO Blue 406 - Procion Blue MX-G Conc

PRO Turquoise 410 - Procion Turquoise MX-G

PRO Deep Navy 414 - Procion Blue MX-4GD

PRO Brown 515 - Procion Brown MX-GRN

PRO Black 608 - Procion Black MX-CWNA

PRO Grape 801 - Procion Violet MX-GN

PRO Boysenberry 802 - Procion MX-BR

Marg
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pburch
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2006, 02:36:51 PM »

Quote
Just as a side note, I emailed ProChem and asked for a list of their Pure colors and here it is:

Actually, some of the colors in the above list are mixed colors which are premixed by the manufacturer, though not by ProChem. The following colors are NOT pure unmixed colors, although they appear on the list ProChem sent:

Quote
PRO Scarlet 300 - Procion Scarlet MX-BRA
PRO Red 312 - Procion Red MX-GBA
PRO Black 608 - Procion Black MX-CWNA

Because they are premixed by the manufacturer, and not proprietary mixes, you may be able to find the identical mixtures at other dye suppliers. This is not true of most pre-mixed colors, most of which are unique to the supplier.

(See also Which Procion MX colors are pure, and which mixtures?.)

Paula
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Marg
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2006, 03:05:01 PM »

Thanks Paula. I believe you. I was wondering if there were such a thing as a pure black....I appreciate your corrections. Marg
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pburch
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2006, 03:53:40 PM »

It took me a long time to figure out those manufacturer's mixed dyes! They tend to get listed by different dye retailers as though they were unmixed single color dyes. I had to order them and test them for myself, several years ago.

Unfortunately, there's no pure Procion MX black. They're all mixed from other colors, such as navy plus orange plus other colors. All of the Procion MX blacks tend to have edges of other colors in tie-dyeing, and separate out interestingly in LWI, whether that's what you want or not. (It can make a great tree bark effect!)

There is a single-dye black I like in the Remazol line, which can be used together with Procion MX if you use a warm enough 'batching' temperature. Batik Oetoro (in Australia) say they have a new pure unmixed black Drimarene K, but I haven't had a chance to try it yet. That's another good fiber reactive dye, which requires a little more warmth than Procion MX dye but doesn't require hot water or steaming.

Here's a link to some pictures which show the difference between black LWI with a Procion MX black mixture and another with the single-color Remazol black: Black Dyes: mixtures and single-color blacks

Paula
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