Help! Problems Having Washfast tiedye

[kanmi]

Is it possible to have a completely washfast tiedye?

For over 5 months now I have been battling with having my tiedyes to be washfast.  I use procion MX dyes on 100% cotton. Soda Ash for pre-soak, dye mixed in chemical water for direct application and batch set in covered plastic box in warm room for minimum of 24 hours. For Washout I rinse in cold water (about 69^oF) until clear, then wash in hot soapy washes (synthrapol) and rinse till water is clear. BUT, after they are dry and inserted in ordinary water, the water get colored.

I live in the tropics where temperature is between 95^oF to 120^oF daily.  I have also tried microwaving.  I have tried even up to 10 hot soapy washes.  I have followed, religiously, all the instructions I can find, including Dharma, Prochem, pburch.net, videos and the numerous tiedye books I have bought.  Yet, my tiedyes still bleed after they are dry, even when they rinse clear before drying (both line dry and machine dried, machine wash and hand wash).  I have also tried Ludigol. To isolate the problem I have also used bottled water for presoak, dye mixing and even washout. I have bought dyes and chemicals from Dharma & Prochem.

Could Someone please help me unravel the problem? I have done all I can think of.  What else should I look out for?
After several washes they dont seem to fade, but neither stop bleeding.  Need Help please.....

[tiedyejudy]

Sounds like you have followed the correct procedures, but you may be expecting too much.  Since the dye bonds with the fiber, but eventually the bond breaks, you will always see some color in the water.  However, the color should not re-bind to other fiber, but will instead rinse away. 

Judy

[ktaltre]

You might want to join the dyer's list and ask your question:

http://list.emich.edu/~dyers/

There's some really intelligent, educated dyer/chemists on that list.
k. taltre

[pburch]

Once the reaction between dye and fiber is complete, and all of the excess dye washed out, there should be no wash out. I never get any visible dye in the water after several hot water washes.

What is very likely happening is that there is something like starch that has been used as sizing in the fabric. Do you have the same problem regardless of what fabric you have used? Is your fabric or clothing sold as being PFD or RFD? (That's "prepared for dyeing" or "ready for dyeing".) Sizing can be a real problem with some sources of fabric. (I have not had this problem with any fabric or clothing purchased from Dharma.) The problem with starch is that it can easily be dyed with fiber reactive dyes, just like cotton fiber can, but it will wash out only gradually over the lifetime of the fabric, giving the appearance of non-washfast dye. To test to see whether this is your problem, buy some iodine. A drop of iodine will turn starch blue. Clean unstarched white fabric will not turn blue in response to starch. You cannot remove starch by boiling, but someone on the DyersLIST mailing list has recently reported success with using an amylase enzyme purchased from a wine brewing supplier.

Another possible supply problem comes when fabric or clothing is labeled as being 100% cotton when it is actually a blend. It happens sometimes. You would probably have figured it out by now if this was happening to you, I think.

You have to consider the possibility of dye that has gone bad to to hot conditions  during storage or shipment, especially given your hot climate. This will not cause the dye that bonds to the fabric to bleed; it just causes more of the dye to be unable to make a good bond in the first place. Fiber reactive dye can form a loose association with fabric that is similar to that of direct dye, which is a kind of dye that is well-known for being poorly washfast. I once received a shipment of a non-dye powder, from UPS, that was hot to the touch because it was a warm summer day and the delivery truck was hot. I plunged an instant-read thermometer into the center of the 8-ounce jar of powder and found that it was 120°F! That is high enough to significantly shorten the lifespan of dye. If the high temperature in your climate is 120°F, your delivery trucks may be hotter still in the summer. Are you able to store your dyes in a room that remains relatively cool during the hottest days? I have heard of problems from dye that was stored in a hot car for one day.

Are you using water that is at least 140°F for your hot water wash, after your initial cool water rinse? Cooler water is much less efficient at removing unattached excess dye. Hotter water, even near boiling, is more efficient. Industrial processes somtimes use water that is near boiling for washing out excess dye. You can conserve heated water by using longer soaks of the dyed fabric in hot water.

If you are not using water softener (sodium hexametaphosphate or Calgon) in your washing water, try using it in every wash. Dye can create a complex with water hardness minerals that is very hard to remove. If you are using print paste, water softener is already present in that, but it's important to use it in the wash water as well, including the scouring you do before dyeing.

Do you scour your fabric with hot water, Synthrapol or other detergent, and extra soda ash, before you dye it? How careful you need to be depends on your source of fabric.

I understand that washing in water with a different level of hardness may enable more dye to wash out suddenly, which can be important when someone sells a dyed item to someone else whose water is different, but that's not the issue in this case.
 
The old formulation of chlorine used to disinfect water did not degrade the dye in my clothing, but the new chloramines do. My colors do fade noticeably after fifty or a hundred launderings now, and they never used to, before the change in water disinfection. However, there is no dye visible in the wash water as the result of the chloramines. It's not a wash-out problem in this case; it's a problem with chlorine breaking down the dye molecules.

Paula

[kanmi]

Thank you for the insightful responses.

Find in the pictures below, what I experience.  The first cup (clear) is the last rinsing water after 10 hot soapy wash, and the second is the colored water after the cloth is dry and inserted in ordinary water without soap for 2 minutes. And other picture is the tiedye dyed in Magneta.



For further clarification
- I use fabric bought from Dharma, mainly Tees, and think they are PFDs and 100% cotton.

- I have ordered several dye lots, and try as much as possible to keep them in cool safe place. Though average room temperature is around 90oF.

- I also use almost boiling water, about 195^oF (90^oC) for the hot soapy washes.

I will also try out using water Softener in the washing water.  This seems to be the only thing outstanding.

Thank you.

BR,
Kanmi

[kanmi]

I have tested with Softener, and even bottled water, yet the projects still color the water after several hot soapy washes.

Now, I am wondering: Is it that dye is not fixing? or Is that I am not having a total washout?

Does anyone know how I can test if the tiedye is well fixed?

Thanks.

BR,
'kanmi