What are your favorite primaries for color mixing?

[Jeau]

The previous thread about the colors in the Jacquard tie-dye kit got me wondering...what are your favorite (Procion type) "primary" colors for mixing your own hues?

Mine are Red MX-8B (ProChem's 308 Fuchsia), Turquoise MX-G (410 Turquoise), and Yellow MX-8G (108 Sun Yellow).  I think these are in Jacquard's kit, and Paula Burch recommends these for starters.

Sometimes I prefer the less neon(ish) and subtler Red MX-5B (305 Mixing Red), Blue MX-R (400 Basic Blue), and the same yellow or Yellow MX-4G (114 Lemon Yellow).  I also like Paula's recommendation of Cibracron F type (works well with Procion) Blue FN-G, but PROChem has discontinued it.

What's your favorite "primary" trio?  Which "primaries" don't you like, and why?

   (Dig the 'fro, dude...)

[fiberartist219]

I haven't met a primary I didn't like! Of course, different primaries do different things. For each of my colors I have a warm and a cool, which act completely different. All of the colors listed are from Pro Chem. I could never just choose three primaries though... it's a color theory thing. I think there is a book out there called Blue and Yellow Don't make Green. I haven't actually read it, but I think it can probably explain the secrets behind color mixing better than I can.

Warm red: Scarlet Red
Cool red: Fuschia
Warm yellow: Golden Yellow
Cool yellow: Lemon Yellow
Warm blue: Sky Blue
Cool blues: Turquoise and Midnight Blue

The midnight blue is a mixture rather than pure, but I use it to make purples. I like having at least two sets of each color. The scarlet red and golden yellow makes the brightest oranges you've ever seen, but if you use that same red with any kind of blue, the purples are very murky. The same with the golden yellow. It's amazing for oranges, but if you mix it with the midnight blue, it makes a nice olive color, whereas bright green comes best from lemon yellow and turquoise. Of course, the reds, as most of us know are to be used very cautiously since they are much more intense than the other colors.

[Jeau]

Actually, Scarlet Red and Sky Blue (ProChem’s) are mixtures too, so in reality you’re mixing four or more colors once the other primaries are added.  But there’s no rule against mixing more than three colors!  Three “primary” colors can’t mix all possible colors anyway, no matter which you choose, so you’re right, it’s good to have a variety!  I especially like the duller (some would say “darker”) dyes for mixing black, because it takes a bit less dye to achieve a true dark black than if using the brighter hues.

[fiberartist219]

Good point Jeau. Scarlet and Sky are not pure colors. It would appear they are mixtures as well. It's ok though. I do enjoy mixing with them though!

[Marg]

I have a question for all of you color-mixers out there. I have almost always used colors I bought but now I would like to experiment with mixing. How do you check the color after you have mixed the dyes together? Do you have to dye a shirt with it to find out what it looks like? Or can you check the mixed color then and there somehow? I think I remember reading somewhere about putting a drop on a paper towel...Thanks, Marg

[pburch]

You can put a drop of a dye mixture on a white paper towel, but it won't necessarily be true in color. If one dye color reacts better with your fabric than the other one, the resulting color will shift.

It's best to actually do the dyeing and washing out to check. The fast way to do this is to substitute a minute or two of microwaving for several hours of room-temperature dye reaction. If you cover your wet dyed item with plastic wrap and WATCH CLOSELY, you can microwave it until it is hot and steaming, and the reaction will have been sped up tremendously. Never walk away from fabric that is cooking in the microwave! If it cooks long enough to dry out, it WILL catch on fire. Microwave until you can see the plastic wrap start to poof up a little from the steam, but don't let it go long enough for there to be a risk that the plastic wrap will blow off, allowing dye to make a mess by splattering around the inside of the microwave.

Of course the colors may be different if your normal temperatures are cooler than optimal. If your studio is 70°F or below so that your turquoise comes out paler than it should, the color mixes will be skewed to less blue in the cooler temps.

Since I usually have no more than a vague idea of what color I want, I often do use the white paper towel trick, or drop a drop into my white kitchen sink and dilute it with water to see what color it is. It's close enough for my purposes.

Paula

[Jeau]

Hi Marg--when I first started dyeing, I ran into this problem too.  Between the dyebath properties and the reaction time, it's tough to judge the end results of a custom mixture!  My friend the oil painter doesn't have this problem, and I can't convince her that for fiber artists, it's not "cheating" to build an inventory of dyed fabric samples and the formulas that yielded them.  She thinks we should be able to mix dyes innately and know exactly how they'll turn out.  I'd like to see her try it!

I do like to know what color I'm getting, and usually have a specific target.  My art often aims to be literal in its interpretation of the planet (flowers, mushrooms, phibs, other critters), so I don't like leaving it up to fate.  I'm a perfectionist to a fault...my left and right brains duke it out all the time!  When I fall in love with a color, I simply have to know how to duplicate it.

I have a yard of PFD cotton fabric that I soaked in soda ash, let dry, cut into small strips, and saved for future use.  I prefer fabric to paper towels because the results are more accurate, and having it pre-soaked and dried is handy if you don't put fixer directly into your dyes.  To test a mixture, I put a strip and some of the custom dye in a small Gladware.  I leave it covered in the sun for half an hour, and it stays wet but heats up much like my car does (I'm in Arizona...this might not work for you).  If I'm in a hurry, I nuke it 'til hot, leaving a corner of the Gladware loose.  If you're dyeing silk or wool, just adjust the method.  The swatch should provide you with an accurate, reproduceable hue (ratio of CMY, or blue : red : yellow), provided you are using the same kind of fabric.  Your depth of shade (saturation or lightness) may vary from your finished project, but this is easy to control and predict.  Have fun!

[Jeau]

I forgot to mention that of course I rinse the swatches, then dry them so I can see the real color.  You probably knew this, but just in case...    Sometimes a spaghetti jar works better than Gladware, because you can shake it vigorously to agitate the rinse water and extract the dye from the fabric more rapidly.  Just make sure the lid is on really tight!

[Jaja]

I did color mixes testing with presoaked and dryed cotton strips. But when I don't need to really match certain dye shade, I simply use kitchen paper towel.
On the other hand, pre-soaked dry cotton strips are good for to prepare rough mixing "map" based on concentrates amounts in rates like 1:1, 1:3. You can judge other mixtures and paler shades by estimate.
What helps as well is to have prepared concentrates of good-looking mixtures, that you have discovered by above process. And of course, you can do next level of exploration by mixing primaries with mixtures found in first step. (Otherwise mapping of whole color space, you can achieve, could be never ending process)
GOOD ADVICE: Take notes, mark your samples carefully, glue them on the cardboard and hide away from sun.

[Jeau]

Otherwise mapping of whole color space, you can achieve, could be never ending process) GOOD ADVICE: Take notes, mark your samples carefully...

The color space is infinite, but our ability to perceive color differences is not!  Here's a bit of info that I have published on my web site (please forgive the length):

"If you mix three primaries so that each mixture is defined in terms of percentages (a mixture equals 100%, with each primary comprising a portion of this), and mix batches in increments of 20% (also visualized as parts of five), you will yield 21 unique hues (notwithstanding differences in lightness/saturation, which you can create via serial dilution).  For example, you could mix a ratio of blue:red:yellow of 100:0:0, or 80:20:0, 80:0:20, 60:40:0, 60:20:20, 60:0:40, and so on, you get the idea.  Crazy Cat Fibers shows the results of these mixtures here: http://www.crazycatknitting.com/crazycat_tutorials/color_mixing_formulas.htm (see Color Charts 1-5 for turquoise, fuschia, and yellow).  These charts are seldom mentioned on lists of color mixing resources on the web, but I have used them often!  They show large samples of actual dyed fabric rather than teensy textureless squares.  (Some mixing pages don't even try to show colors, just arbitrary names!)  Just keep in mind that colors appear differently on your monitor, and the ratios are by dye weight (preferred for accuracy), not volume.

Expanding your repertoire to increments of 10% (or parts of ten), you'll yield 66 hues.  But if you expand your repertoire to include increments of 5% (parts of 20), you'll get a whopping 261 hues!  This begins to approach the limits of human perceptual ability, thus should satisfy your full range of color needs.  The only colors that will fall outside of this color space (you cannot mix them with turquoise, fuschia, and yellow) are a very bright orange, very bright purple, and very bright green.  For this reason, I always keep pure orange and purple on hand (pure green is not available with MX-type dyes, so your mixture is your best bet).  Believe it or not, you can even make a black this way.

When I first started building my swatch inventory, I began with increments of 20%, then filled in the gaps with increments of 10%, then completed the picture with 5%.  I thought of it like a game of battleship: even at larger increments, I got a balanced picture.  But filling in the detail with more mixtures helped me target a color more accurately, providing more direct hits, and less guesswork.  Now I have a resource I can always turn to.

You can repeat this experiment with three different primaries (like a more "traditional" red, blue, and yellow), but most of your hues will already be represented in your first run.  The main advantage to creating a second spread of swatches is not so much getting an expanded inventory of hues, but that three different primaries will halo differently.  This can be useful for tie-dyeing and lwi, but is less necessary if you are into immersion dyeing or paint-on batik."

Good luck mixing, and have fun!