Discharge dyeing

[tiedyejudy]

I have been wanting to try this technique for a long time, but I still haven't seen a set of clear, understandable directions anywhere.  Anyone out there willing to share their experiences or point me to a good source of instruction?  Everything I have come across that is published is very sketchy about the step by step process.  My main questions are:
      If you use bleach water, how strong do you make it and how long do you leave the item in the solution?  Do you use a neutralizer to stop the bleach process when you remove the item?  Do you dye, then discharge, then dye?  Or do you use a pre-dyed item, discharge, then dye?  Do you ever use discharge paste?  Or just laundry bleach?

Thanks,
Judy

[pburch]

It is impossible, unless you dyed the fabric yourself, to know how susceptible the dye in your fabric will be to bleach. Even if you've bought the identical black shirts from the identical source for years, all of a sudden you will find that the dye, although identical in appearance, will discharge completely differently! Clothing suppliers don't care what dye they use as long as it's the same color when they sell it to you.

This means that you can't make a simple recipe that will always work. Basically, what you have to do is start with a fairly dilute bleach solution, say one part bleach to ten parts water, drop in your fabric, and watch. Pull it out and drop it in the prepared anti-chlor mixture when it looks bleached enough for you. If nothing happens, try again with less dilute bleach, or even straight bleach. It may take only a few seconds, or it may take half an hour! Note that what looks beige when you pull the fabric out of the bleach might wash to a pure white. Then again, it might turn out to be some weird color. There's no predicting, since you don't usually know what dye(s) you're discharging.

Here's an example of how different one shirt can be from another: http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/example26.shtml

Paula

[Taika-Kim]

I usually tend to use chlorine rather heavy handedly. It gets the job done, but few times I've managed to destroy the fabric completely

I have used discharge paste with my silk screen a few times, so far the results are varied... Results on commercial fabrics are not so good, but this seems to work fine with Remazols. OTOH I think they are especially created for discharge work.

One nice trick is to simmer the whole already dyed cloth in a mild chlorine bath for some time. This changes the colours in a very cool way, I can't really explain it, jus try it sometime.
This effect might depend on the colours used. The effect is quite evident with my Remazols, and IIRC my old Furia levafix colours were OK with this too...
The best way is to create very dark colours with some variation, so there's still some strong colours left after the process.

[tiedyejudy]

Well, I finally got up the nerve to try an experiment in discharge dyeing.  I bought a bleach pen and cut up some squares of black fabric.  All but one discharged to a rust color.  The other square seems to be a cotton/poly mix, and the bleach pen barely lightened the fabric where I applied it.  Here are pictures of the results:



 But the experiment did make me decide to order the thickener, discharge paste and some black tees!  I guess I'm ready for a new direction!  One thing I liked about the bleach pen was that I could apply it to a pre-sketched design.  I'm thinking I might try thickened bleach applied with a craft paint bottle on one side of a shirt - has anyone tried that?  If so, I would love to hear about the results.  One other thing I did on one of my bleach pen samples is reapply after rinsing out in a sodium thiosulfate  solution, and drying.  As I suspected, the area where I applied the bleach again came out lighter, more like a peachy color.  I'm thinking about investing in a piece of plexiglass small enough to insert in between the front and back of a shirt, to prevent the thickened bleach from bleeding through to the back. 
Question:  does it hurt to allow the thickened bleach to dry before rinsing in the sodium thiosulfate? 

Judy 

[pburch]

Question:  does it hurt to allow the thickened bleach to dry before rinsing in the sodium thiosulfate? 

I'd be afraid that it might. The longer the bleach is on the fabric, the more damage is apt to be done. I like to rinse and neutralize the fabric as soon as it gets light enough (keeping in mind that the bleach-damaged dye often has some color that will wash out, leaving a lighter color).

The only way to know for sure is to try it, and then wash the garment fifty times to see how well it holds up....

Paula

[tiedyejudy]

Well, I finally bit the bullet and tried discharge dyeing on 2 shirts.  The first one, I applied bleach using a squeeze bottle, let it sit, applied some more, etc.  It didn't seem to be getting as light as I anticipated, so I put some bleach in a shallow pan and put the tied area in the bleach, turning occasionally.  If finally bleached out to a light cream color.  A second shirt was then put in a similar solution, but only lightened to a tan color.  I then rinsed both and used Bleach Stop and soaked in soda ash solution.  I was sure the dyes would come out muddy, but I was delighted when I rinsed out the dyes yesterday and discovered how vibrant the colors were!  Here they are:



Needless to say, I am now hooked on discharge dyeing!  Can't wait to do more!

Judy

[LiveFreeorDye]

Judy, did you untie before you rinsed out, or rinse the tied garment and then overdye?

take it easy
Sue

[tiedyejudy]

I left the shirts tied for the entire process.  What I did do, as recommended by the Dharma instructions, is agitate the bleached area of the shirt in the Bleach stop solution, to enable it to penetrate the tied area.  I didn't do it for the whole 15 minutes, however.  Too impatient!

Judy

[tiedyejudy]

I was reading about discharge dyeing in  "The Great T-Shirt Book" by Carol Taylor, and decided to try spraying a bleach solution on my tied shirts rather than immersing the tied area in the solution.  I ended up with very small areas that took the dye afterward.  I will post pictures later, but I would really like to find someone who can give me specifics on how much bleach to how much water, technique for applying the solution, etc.  I know that each garment will react differently, depending on the dyes used by the manufacturer, etc.  But it's frustrating that even in a book which describes the process, they don't give a hint about how much!  Help!

Judy 

[pburch]

I would really like to find someone who can give me specifics on how much bleach to how much water, technique for applying the solution, etc.  I know that each garment will react differently, depending on the dyes used by the manufacturer, etc.  But it's frustrating that even in a book which describes the process, they don't give a hint about how much!  Help!

The only way they could possibly specify exactly how much to use, and for exactly how long, would be if they included the actual fabric to discharge, in a sort of kit, which seems impractical.

I am scared to death of spraying chlorine bleach. I can barely breath after my husband uses bleach when cleaning the house. It's scary stuff. I hope that you're spraying the bleach only either outside or in a specially ventilated space, and, in either case, only while wearing a proper gas respirator (not a dust mask).

The best instructions I've seen for discharging fabric by direct application of bleach is Jane Dunnewold's Complex Cloth. It's much more rigorous and reliable than The Great T-Shirt Book, with several illustrated step-by-step recipes which use straight, undiluted hypochlorite bleach. There is now a DVD set showing the techniques in Complex Cloth, as well; unfortunately, I have not seen it. Amazon does not have the DVD set, but ProChem does. ProChem also sells the Dual Cartridge Air Purifying Respirators.

Why did only small areas take the dye afterwards? Were only small areas discharged, or did some discharged areas fail to take the dye?

Paula

[LiveFreeorDye]

When I dipped my toe into discharge techniques a couple years ago, I called Pro Chem to find out what they recommended for dilution, and was told 2:1 or 3:1 water to bleach, for 5 or 10 min tops. 

I also tried some Clorox gel (a cleaning product) which I applied with a sponge brush through a stencil. I liked the results of that very much. I was bleaching out a map of the state of NH onto khaki colored shirts which I later had silk screened with our state motto (Live Free or Die). I'd show you, but I've sold all the shirts.

take it easy
Sue

[tiedyejudy]

First off, I was spraying a bleach/water combination onto the tied garment.  There was very little odor, so I probably didn't have enough bleach in it.  The area that took the bleach was mainly just the exposed folds of the design I tied.  Also, hardly any bleach soaked thru to the back side, so I have mere glimmers of color on the back.  Compare these shirts to the ones I posted above, and you'll see what I mean:



It's not that the end result isn't interesting... just too vague.  When I look at the designs in the T-shirt book, I seriously doubt if it was accomplished by spraying on a bleach solution...

Judy

[pburch]

I see what you mean, I'd love to wear those shirts, but they are less exciting to catch a buyer's eye.

There is something fishy about The Great T-Shirt Book, by Carol Taylor. Large sections of it, at least the photos of many of the t-shirts, are identical to those in Terrific T-Shirts: Hundreds of Ways to Create Your Own Great Designs, by Chris Rankin. I was unable to compare them in detail before I had to return the latter, but there's something wrong. I don't think it's plagiarism—too obvious—more likely a publisher's trick. Rankin's book was published in 2004, and Taylor's in 1992, both by Lark Books/Sterling Publications.

Paula

[tiedyejudy]

I just completed another experiment with discharge dyeing.  This time, I used a 50/50 mix of bleach and HOT water.  Quite a difference.  First off, it took far less time for the dye to bleach out.  Secondly, the bleach water mix took out more of the dye.  The only thing I forgot to do on one of the 'vee' designs was to cover the area I didn't want bleached, so I got a few spots I didn't want.  The next step is to see how well I can cover them with direct application!  Wish me luck...  Meanwhile, here's one of the latest efforts:

Judy   

[LiveFreeorDye]

This looks great, Judy. Approx. how long did it take with the warm bleach solution?

Take it easy

Sue