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Author Topic: Mudmee Technique  (Read 3028 times)
ktaltre
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« on: May 15, 2011, 05:51:47 AM »

I finally started playing with the mudmee type of tiedye - or at least what I think it might be, from looking at it on the internet.

Thai mudmee pieces are exuberant in their color application and their colors are more muted than regular tiedye. Much of the binding seems to be a lot of circles and fanfold trails, looking like it was tied with string or cord or something of that nature. The mudmee artists also have a certain aesthetic in the placement of the trails and circles.

As I was browsing through the forum, I came across the mention of "three step maki-agi"
(makiage is the shibori technique in which a wide variety of shapes are stitched, gathered and then bound or capped to complete the resist).
Intrigued, I googled the phrase, and found this:
http://entwinements.com/blog-mt3/2007/10/three_step_makiage.html
and then this:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/maki-age/pool/
There's a couple of pieces by forum participant, Jaja, in this group of pictures.

This type of physical resist and handling of the cloth may be what Thai mudmee is based on.
Much of the mudmee I can see on the internet seems to be a process of binding,  removing color from the cloth, and then adding color back. So I started with that premise.

My first try on a brown t-shirt and was tightly tied.  I used straight bleach in a little squirt bottle to discharge color. I had a water bath to rinse and an antichlor bath ready to neutralize.
The shirt remained tied as I rinsed and antichlor-ed the shirt. I let the shirt dry to damp and then dyed (soda ash in the dye), batched, and washed. The ties come off before the washout.
When I removed it from the dryer, the area where it had been tied the tightest, had developed holes. The rinsing and the antichlor soak hadn't gotten under the tight binding very well, so the bleach ate holes in the cloth. I also should have used watered down bleach. Ruined a  shirt – wah!

If using bleach, untying right after the bleaching, rinsing, then neutralizing, would probably be the safest for the cloth. The cloth could be tied again or the dye could be applied to the discharged areas without re-tying.

My next foray into the mudmee was discharging with thiourea dioxide. Thiox doesn't degrade fabric and it doesn't need to be neutralized like bleach, just rinsed off (directions at ProChem).

Since I was going to be heating the shirts because of the thiox bath, I tied them with string. The knots in artificial sinew relax when heated and untie themselves; the wax melts off too.

Instead of setting up a simmering thiox bath, I made the solution with hot tap water, poured it over the shirt in a bowl and microwaved (dedicated dye microwave) till hot. I had to turn the shirts over and microwave some more. The shirts stayed tied through discharging, dyeing, and batching.  I used about a quart of discharge mix per shirt.
 
I rinsed, squeezed the water out as best I could and let the shirts dry on a rack. Then I dyed (soda ash in the dye), batched, and washed.  The ties come off before washout.

The following shirts are 5% spandex in assorted colors, not black. These shirts discharged with thiox to some pretty ugly colors, dull beiges and grays. The fanfolds kept the original color inside the folds the best.

I think I approached the Thai mudmee color pallet, because when overdyeing the beiges and grays, that's what happens.

This started out as a pale brownish shirt. You can see how the colors are muted, except for the Raspberry.
http://www.photoshop.com/users/ktaltre/assets/b1a3545a415f4334a59d2a8c784466a8

This was a purple shirt fanfolded up from the bottom, the sleeves were scrunched. There was a lot of original color left in the fan folds.
http://www.photoshop.com/users/ktaltre/assets/f32abbf6e655463da9b3bb7cd2a826f8

This was a brown shirt, can still see a lot of brown, but it is somewhat grayed out from the thiox. The shirt tied.
http://www.photoshop.com/users/ktaltre/assets/eb73c70bff344cef837ecc0174a7f4b5
The shirt - one of the petals is all dark; I may try to discharge just that section and dye it again.
http://www.photoshop.com/users/ktaltre/assets/6d4770709c0a436ba913fc3f6e3a3a40
One sleeve - a fanfold, folded along the top of the sleeve.
http://www.photoshop.com/users/ktaltre/assets/b5b105bba9bd49d8a42ca59092b153a2
The other sleeve - circles fanfolded  from half circles, then bound, along the top of the sleeve.
http://www.photoshop.com/users/ktaltre/assets/11519c1d6f7f4e8c97179b50f15059d0
I tied up that one dark petal and stuck the point in a little jar with some hot thiox bath.
http://www.photoshop.com/users/ktaltre/assets/f5254c3922bd4e309e8aeda5aa3635ac

I tried a light gray shirt - it lost most all the color, so ended up looking more like regular tiedye.
Tried an old black shirt out of my drawer; the thiox didn't touch it - will try with bleach next.

I think most tie dyers could develop their own version of Thai mudmee tiedyeing.
The cloth or clothing could be first dyed by the tiedyer instead of using commercially colored cloth. One could figure out which dyes discharge the best with your chosen discharge agent.
The Thais seems to use mostly black as their base color.

When discharging with thiox, you only have to tie once. In a production situation, tying once makes more sense. Also, a pot of hot thiox bath would be more productive than messing around with the microwave. 

Since I've started writing this, I've made the thiox bath with almost boiling water, then poured it over the tied cloth in a bowl - works great, no microwave. I make a quart at a time.

My mudmee process probably isn't the way the Thailand tiedyers actually do it.  I certainly don't know what discharging agents or types of dye or even what kind of physical resist they use.

But I think I got an approximation of the mudmee look and will continue the journey.
k. taltre
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tiedyejudy
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2011, 08:38:50 AM »

Thanks for sharing your experiments!  I have decided to do some experimenting with a shirt I had dyed but wasn't satisfied with the result.  So I tied a diagonal stripe on it, then several circles using sinew and a piece of bamboo skewer in the center of the circle to brace the folds as I tied them.  The shirt has fuchsia, lemon yellow and turquoise in it, and I plan to overdye with black to see the results.  I also have a couple of other ideas I want to try, including discharging a black shirt.  Thanks much for the thiox tips!  I have never made a bath out of it, just painted it on and steamed.  Can't wait to try the bath to see how it does!
I'll post pictures when I have some results to report.
 
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tiedyejudy
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2011, 12:49:55 PM »

Here's my first try:



This is a shirt I dyed using the 3 primaries and the pattern was a triple swirl.  it didn't come out the way I wanted, so I set it aside while trying to decide what to do with it.  I decided to try the mudmee look... worst case scenario, it would go in the goodwill bag.  I'm actually pleased with the results.  I used bamboo skewers to hold the medallions in place while I tied with sinew, and did a simple diagonal stripe.  then I dipped the medallions in black dye, scrunched in a bin, and poured black dye over all, leaving some of the colored areas showing through.  I think I will play with colors next on a white shirt and overdye with black, then when I get my thiourea dioxide from DT, I'll try the same technique on a black shirt.  I could try a bleach water solution, but I haven't had great success with discharging a commercially dyed black shirt, and I don't want the holes that K. Taltre mentioned, so..... stay tuned!  We'll get this yet! 
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ktaltre
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2011, 01:59:38 PM »

oh yeah, Judy! that's a great shirt!
I talked to a ProChem Tech about thiox; it has no shelf life after it is mixed. That's why I make up just a quart at a time.
I've been using 1/4 teaspoon thiox and a scant 1/4 teaspoon of soda ash per quart of water. I boil the tea kettle and then walk it over to my dye studio so it's just under boiling. I've read that you can use more thiox if needed.
k. taltre
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Jaja
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 01:32:39 AM »

I like both results. Makes me think of trying something myself as well. Would be great to arrange mudmee experimental party!
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tiedyejudy
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2011, 02:16:06 AM »

Sounds great, Jaja!  I know I'm not done playing with this yet... think I want to do some color experimenting to see if I can get that 'glow' they get.  I know their dyes are probably different than we use, but seems to me I have gotten close a time or two with Procion MX dyes.  And another thing I'm going to try is using a syringe to do some of the detail work... we'll figure this out yet!
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ktaltre
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2011, 05:44:20 AM »

Here's a mudmee more in the style of the Thais.
http://www.photoshop.com/users/ktaltre/assets/ed859f0f9cd640c59b5444c6acfee296
Started out as a dusty purple - I capped the end of the circles with plastic wrap.
k. taltre
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2D4
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2011, 06:55:15 AM »

I too have been very interested in the Mudmee tie dye. I've played with trying to figure it out.
Here is a link to a few of my results. I continue to play....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2dye4/


Jo
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tiedyejudy
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2011, 08:41:53 AM »

Great work, Jo!  Question:  are you doing multiple dye baths, or discharging and overdying?  k. mentioned getting holes in hers when she used bleach to discharge, and I'm leery of going in that direction until I get the Dharma Dye remover.  What's your solution?  BTW, you really have the 'glow' down pat!
Judy
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2011, 08:43:39 AM »

Here's a mudmee more in the style of the Thais.
http://www.photoshop.com/users/ktaltre/assets/ed859f0f9cd640c59b5444c6acfee296
Started out as a dusty purple - I capped the end of the circles with plastic wrap.
k. taltre
Nice shirt!  I really like your medallions... very different style than what I end up with!
Judy
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ktaltre
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« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2011, 01:18:15 PM »

Thanks! to 2Dye4-Jo, for giving the link to your mudmee works. I knew there was a member of the forum doing this type of tiedye.
And there you are! Really great work! Inspiring!
Judy, yes, I think mudmee results would probably be different for any one of us.
I'm getting different results on different types of cotton knit.
k. taltre

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tiedyejudy
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2011, 04:57:12 AM »

Here is a rayon top I dyed yesterday:


I used a syringe to apply the dyes, waiting after I applied color for about an hour before applying the black.  Then I let it batch overnite, uncovered.  It was dry this morning when I untied and rinsed it out.  I am encouraged with this one, but still want to work some on how I create the medallions.  More to come!
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2D4
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2011, 05:54:19 AM »

Hi Judy & K,

Love the cami Judy and K., I love the diamond pattern shirt.

When I first started playing with discharge I used a diluted bleach solution.
Now, I use thiox/soda ash and a hot plate with a large stainless steel buffet tray to
hold the solution. I just add an even amount of the chemicals and continue
doing so until it starts leaving a different color in the fabric, usually a greeny-yellow,
rather than the light gray or rust, then I dump the tray and start fresh.
I've found that certain fabrics still respond better to the diluted bleach solution,
so I still use it occasionally.

I really do a combination of direct dye, discharge, low immersion and bucket dyeing.
And like I've said previously, I just keep playing. If you have any specific questions
be happy to share what I've learned.

Jo
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ktaltre
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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2011, 01:20:31 PM »

I also love the cami, Judy.
The way I've been doing medallions lately is draw a half circle on a fold and bind.
Another good way to do them is to hand sew a circle, gather it up, then bind.
I like the the bamboo skewer trick too, never thought of that.
k. taltre
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ezri
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2011, 09:40:50 PM »

All such beautiful work, I hadn't seen mudmee before but it looks amazing. I love bleaching and redyeing over the top, and now want to try some of the mudmee type dyeing, looks like a lot of fun. Hate the fumes though and still need a better respirator before I try much more.

I've got the DT colour remover (thiox) in my cart for next order- is it as bad with the fumes as using bleach and neutraliser?
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